Re: Trumpeter Swan Legs

["Cliff and Lisa Weisse" <october at ida dot net>]

Tim,

Interesting photo of the Trumpeter juv with black legs so apparently 
there is variation in this character as well(assuming it's not an effect 
of the photograph and they're really black).  Notice that everything 
else about the bird is consistent with Trumpeter though (overall 
coloration(although a Tundra this young might still be mostly brown); 
long neck; long bill; flat, not domed, forehead; back not arched).  

Your "captive juvenile" photo was referenced by Lu Giddings and is 
obviously of a very young bird (again, despite the date of 10/10) on 
which the facial feathering is not fully developed.  On the Salem bird 
it appears fully developed with sharp edges to the top and bottom of the 
black line connecting eye with bill.  

You made the same mistake on the Schmoker bird as was previously made 
and which I pointed out in my post.  The juvenile swan in the photo you 
used for your composite (with comparison of adult and juvenile 
Trumpeters to the Salem bird) is a juvenile Tundra Swan, NOT a juvenile 
Trumpeter.  The caption for that photo, which is on Bill Schmoker's site 
(http://www.schmoker.org/BirdPics/TRUSs.html, fourth photo down), says 
"Head comparison of juvenile Tundra (right- note very narrow lores) and 
adult Trumpeter Swans,......".  

For an example of a photo of a Tundra that at least approaches the bill 
shape of the Salem bird, see 
http://www.schmoker.org/BirdPics/Photos/Waterfowl/TUSW7.jpg.  Not exact 
but close.  Sorry I don't have time to look for more photos right now 
but I'll forward links if I come across any in the future.  I have one 
of a Bewick's race Tundra that's a closer match but I don't have 
permission to use it and don't know whether it's relevant any way given 
that this bird clearly isn't a Bewick's.  

| Problem with the Salem bird, as with many hard to Identify birds, is
| the the fact that it is a juvenile bird, and there just aren't many
| resources to base a 100% certain I.D.  Now with that said, will
| someone please find some head shot of Tundra Swan, with a bill like
| the Salem bird?  Until I see a hammer-down bill on a Tundra (which I
| am yet to see on film or in the wild),  I cannot without major
| hesitation call this bird a Tundra Swan, and stand firm with my belief
| that the bird is a Trumpeter Swan.

I can turn this argument right around and say I'm not comfortable with 
this as a Trumpeter until you can find me a photo of a juvenile 
Trumpeter in January that's already this white on the body and wing 
coverts, has a neck this short, a back this arched, etc.  In a bird with 
characters that may indicate two species, I feel you have to take the 
majority and forget the minority.  If you're trying to ID an out of 
range vagrant I don't think it's a good idea to have numerous characters 
that are atypical.  If there is something not quite as expected but 
everything else fits it's most likely either an aberrant individual or 
an example of variation.  

I think the best approach is to assume it's NOT the vagrant species, in 
this case assume it's a Tundra Swan, and then try to prove that it is 
indeed a Tundra.  If you can't prove it's a Tundra then start thinking 
about Trumpeter.  In other words don't assume it's a Trumpeter, or any 
other vagrant, and try to make everything fit as best you can.  You'll 
end up talking yourself into it.  You could take this approach and argue 
that the photo of the juv Trumpeter with black legs 
(http://bdi.org/Birdkey/Detail.cfm?ID@6&Area_Name1&Passed_GenusÊssed_Species¼cinator) must be a Tundra 
despite the fact that everything else fits Trumpeter.  Or does it?  The 
facial feathering sort of fits a young juv Tundra doesn't it?  And the 
neck might be stretched out to the extreme.  And the bird might just be 
delayed in molting in wing coverts.  The bill sort of looks a bit 
concave too.  So maybe it's really a Tundra Swan?  I think that's the 
wrong approach.

The bill on the Salem bird is the only thing that I see that's not as 
expected for Tundra Swan.  Everything else is pretty typical for Tundra. 
 In light of this, the fact that Trumpeters can rarely have black legs 
isn't relevant.  The large majority of characters still favors Tundra on 
the Salem bird.  

Again, if you really want to get opinions from birders with far more 
experience, and knowledge, than I have I think you should post a query 
on ID Frontiers.  I won't have access to email for the next five days or 
so but I'll check on this discussion when I get back.

Cheers,
Cliff
_______________________________________________

"Utah Birds" web site: http://www.utahbirds.org
     BirdTalk:
To subscribe, e-mail:  birdtalk-subscribe@utahbirds.org
To unsubscribe, e-mail:  birdtalk-unsubscribe@utahbirds.org
To send a message, e-mail:  birdtalk@utahbirds.org
_________________________________________________