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RE: Re: Empid question

Richard,

Just an additional nickel's worth on your empid: I would agree
wholeheartedly with Mark's very good analysis.  Adding just a minor point,
another issue that I have found to be very useful as an ancillary id aid for
Gray Flycatcher is the species tendency to do what I would call a "tail
drop" when perched vs. Willow Flycatcher, which generally does a "tail
raise" upon perching. Also, bill coloring on a Gray can seem to be very much
black top and orange bottom mandibile, although upon very careful
examination there is usually a blackish tip to the lower mandible. I also
find Willow (here in the West) to generally be one of the darker backed
empids, with color less brown but more darker green. 
Regardless, thanks for sharing this id challenge with all of us...We need to
be continually sharpening our empid id skills.  Any person who claims to be
able to identify all species of silent empid in migration "speaks with
forked tongue!" 

Harry Krueger
Boise   

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-birdtalk@utahbirds.org [mailto:owner-birdtalk@utahbirds.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Stackhouse
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:19 AM
To: Richard Wood; birdtalk
Subject: Re: Re: Empid question

Richard,

I've read your posts regarding your empid, and would suggest a bit of
caution. Even the most experienced birders can rarely be 100% certain about
the i.d. of a non-calling empid off of the breeding grounds.

Here are my thoughts after reading your messages:

First, the habitat the bird is in means nothing this time of year - during
migration all empids can be in any habitat. Today I saw both Gray and
Hammond's Flycatchers at the Garr Ranch on Antelope Island, in habitat that
would not be considered "correct" for either one. Nor would either of these
birds be found in the same habitat during the breeding season - they are at
opposite ends of the spectrum. Gray is normally in very dry, sagebrush and
pinyon-juniper habitats, and Hammond's in high altitude coniferous forests.

Second, Willow Flycatchers are very late arrivals - among the last of the
empids to reach Utah. They are normally only now arriving in extreme
southern Utah (sometimes they don't reach St. George until the 15th of May
or later). They usually don't show up in northern Utah until the end of May.

Third, the bird you describe sounds more like a Gray Flycatcher to me. 
The long-tailed, long-billed look is better for Gray than Willow, which has
tail and bill that look more proportional. The fact that you saw an eye ring
at all is better for something other than Willow, which often has almost no
eye ring at this time of year. The yellow lower mandible is not diagnostic
for Willow, as Gray and Cordilleran both have lower mandibles that are
almost entirely yellow  as well. Even some Dusky Flycatchers can have mostly
yellow lower mandibles. A better character to notice is the width of the
bill - both Willow and Cordilleran have wide bills, while the others have
narrow bills.

 From what I've seen over the past few days, there seem to be quite a few
Gray Flycatchers migrating through northern Utah right now. If you'd like, I
can send you a picture of one I saw Tuesday on Antelope Island.

In spite of the flooding, in must be exciting to be having so many great
yard birds!

Mark Stackhouse
801-487-9453 (Salt Lake City, Utah, USA)
011-52-323-285-1243 (San Blas, Nayarit, Mexico)

On May 10, 2005, at 8:25 PM, Richard Wood wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I went out again before dinner and got a scope view of my Empid.  I 
> saw that his bill was black on the top and orangish on the bottom, 
> which would make him a Willow Flycatcher, which is a year bird and a 
> lifer for me in Utah.
>
> After dinner, Jill and I went out to look at him and we again got him 
> in the scope and we are 100% certain that he's a Willow.
>
> Nicky Davis sent me a link to pictures of Willow Flycatchers which 
> helped to nail down the identification.  What a sweet little bird...
>
> Good birding,
> Richard
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Richard Wood" <rwoodphd@msn.com>
>> To: <birdtalk@utahbirds.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:40 PM
> Subject: [BirdTalk] Re: Empid question
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I saw my Empid again.  On closer examination, he had a longer bill 
>> than most, was rather brownish on top, an dhis eyering wasn't all 
>> that distinct.  I'm now leaning towards an Alder or a Willow 
>> Flycatcher, with a Willow being the more likely of the two (based 
>> upon field maps).
>>
>>
>> Good birding,
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Richard Wood
>>   To: birdtalk@utahbirds.org
>>   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:11 PM
>>   Subject: Empid question
>>
>>
>>   Hi all,
>>
>>   Our back yard here in Hyrum is, for all intents and purposes, a 
>> swamp.
>>  That being siad, after I saw the two Lazuli Buntings from the porch, 
>> I decided to go out back and check the area out.  While I was out 
>> there, I saw, perched on a piece of brush above the water, an Empid.  
>> However, I can't decide which one it was.  He had a fiarly long tail 
>> for his size (he was rather small),  had a distinct eyering and nice 
>> wingbars.  I was leaning toward either a Cordilleran or a Dusky.
>>
>>   The question is which one of these (or other Empids) would like 
>> swampy areas?
>>
>>   Good birding,
>>   Richard
>>
>>
>>
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To unsubscribe, e-mail:  birdtalk-unsubscribe@utahbirds.org
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